We say.

 
Jan 16 2013

Response to Sync Issues

After a rather frantic month of dealing with the unfortunate iCloud sync, we made an always-difficult decision: to do a U-turn. New versions of all three Money apps are currently waiting for Apple’s review, and they all contain the old sync via Wi-Fi. Some of you will be glad to go back to the old sync, and some will be inevitably disappointed, but we must admit that iCloud sync is just not reliable on Money. Let us explain you how we ended up with this undesirable result.

Right after iCloud was first released, we started getting requests to incorporate an iCloud feature into Money for easier syncing. That really seemed to be a great idea, and in a way it still does. We started working on it immediately and ran into problems not much later. After many months of constant issues, we thought we saw a light at the end of the tunnel when Mountain Lion and iOS 6 came out, because we finally managed to build a Money version with an operational iCloud sync. However, as we can see now, it was a bit too early for champagne.

All of you surely know many document-based apps that use iCloud and seem to be doing absolutely fine. That’s why it must seem odd that Jumsoft is utterly incapable of developing a proper iCloud sync feature. However, the big difference between Money and those iCloud-friendly apps is that Money uses a relational database created with Core Data to handle its highly complex data models. And although iCloud is, without a doubt, a great tool for straightforward file saving, it has serious problems with Core Data, as attested by many a blog post, such as this one on Macworld.

The bottom line is that we cannot remove Core Data from our apps because that would make them little more than simple spreadsheets. Nor can we rely on iCloud to work with Core Data properly, at least for now. We shouldn’t have released the iCloud version of Money and, frankly, we had resisted pressure for many months, but back in December we were sure that we finally had a fully working sync feature. Actually, many of our customers are absolutely happy with the new sync because it does work on their devices. But, seemingly randomly, it just does not work for others.

That’s why we must pull the iCloud versions of all three Money apps from the market. We cannot apologize enough for all the distress they caused, but we can promise that the new updates will fix both the sync issues and the problems with data disappearing. And the sync button will be back :)
110 comments
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Posted in Applications
 

George:

January 16, 2013 at 7:57 pm

So, any chance that we will see iCloud sync in nearest future?

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 18, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    iCloud sync will be available as soon all bugs (including Apple bugs) will be resolved, however, we cannot predict when it will happen.

    Daniel:

    January 31, 2013 at 1:41 am

    First of all, navigating and manipulating complex data structures without a well abstracted API (your actual issue) isn’t a “bug”, nor is it Apple’s fault that they can’t advance data structures faster then the speed of human discovery. It may be a pain in the neck, but iCloud is far from impossible to deal with (and while each may have its own strengths and weaknesses, about on par with other industry solutions).

    Besides, the integrated iCloud worked seamlessly for many people including myself. Now Jumsoft requires a revert to older functionality that is not a replacement solution. Couldn’t Jumsoft have simply offered an iCloud version for use at one’s own risk, that was still updated and supported outside of the iCloud feature?

    But all that aside, my biggest issue is that Jumsoft either can’t or is unwilling to deliver on the features it has already advertised as a primary function (and I’m sure a primary driver in developing the apps price-point). This worries me going forward as it suggests that the Jumsoft team is either incompetent or unmoved into providing not only what has already been claimed as a part of the software currently, but is also an economic variable driving Jumsoft’s income. This is most worrisome because if a company cannot be moved to make a change when money is involved, it will never be moved to make a change when customer sentiment is involved. And a company that has lost its relationship with its people has lost its way.

    Oh, and by the way, the quickest way to alienate ANY customer base is to tell them that the issue, “isn’t your fault.” Any situation involving the company is a precipitate of its actions (if in no other way then being founded, the company takes responsibility for any situation it may be involved in regardless of whose actions necessitate the issue). Attempting to blame other parties is at best immature and at worst a completely unrealistic way to run a company, as if Jumsoft don’t fix the problem, no one is going to fix it for you. It is YOUR company after all. Apple doesn’t owe you any charity and I’m not granting you a free pass to failure on their behalf. Bottom line: core data in iCloud is difficult to work with, but it can be done (and has been done many times, by many parties). Apparently it just isn’t worth the effort to Jumsoft.

    Oh yea, P.S. Nice way to link an article about pre-iOS6 iCloud (check the date lol) as proof of post-iOS6 iCloud’s “bugs.” Not that iCloud still isn’t without its issues, but you are painting quite an inaccurate picture of an iCloud that still struggles with all the issues of Jul 24, 2012 (almost seven months ago: when I wouldn’t even touch it), which establishes quite an inaccurate amount of culpability on Apple’s part. Finger pointing and misleading: Bravo. A partial refund, credit towards other apps, or at least an apology admitting culpability and honestly outlining how you plan to fix things and make it up to your users would have been more apropos.

      Tony Arnold:

      January 31, 2013 at 4:05 am

      Daniel, if you could kindly point out a few examples of apps that currently use iCloud’s Core Data integration and don’t have ongoing issues, that would be awesome. I’d love to talk to them, as would many other developers trying to make iCloud’s Core Data integration work properly.

        Daniel:

        January 31, 2013 at 8:12 am

        Come on now, your just being smart. I never said, suggested, implied or otherwise that iCloud with core data works flawlessly. There are many end-users though that get through the issues and get their apps working flawlessly for themselves. The whole split hairs over something irrelevant by taking it out of context is like the preferred facile argument of 2013… And it’s not even relevant to the point! Oh dear…

          Jose:

          January 31, 2013 at 9:43 pm

          As a current apple developer using core data for 3 years, I agree 100% with jumsoft statement. iCloud with Core Data is not stable at the current moment . Not even the supplied example code from Apple in iOS 6.01. Lets see if 6.1 gets better.

          SSteve:

          February 01, 2013 at 5:09 am

          Daniel, it’s pretty well known in Mac developer circles that Core Data syncing over iCloud just doesn’t work. It may work for a simple proof-of-concept app but for data of any actual complexity no one has been successful in getting reliable syncing. This isn’t just Jumsoft–Bare Bones is having a similar crisis. This issue lands squarely at Apple’s feet.

            Daniel:

            February 01, 2013 at 6:36 am

            “I never said, suggested, implied or otherwise that iCloud with core data works flawlessly. There are many end-users though that get through the issues and get their apps working flawlessly for themselves.”
            “Not that iCloud still isn’t without its issues…”
            “…core data in iCloud is difficult to work with, but it can be done…”

            In my first post I mention core data once in a single sentence, never again is it mentioned or referenced, and in that sentence it is described as ‘difficult to work with.’ Perhaps I thought it was safe to assume that I could offer what I thought was an admittance of end-user difficulties with apps using core data. Perhaps it was some sort of secret calculated slight at Apple developers. Perhaps I was simply unclear. If I failed to bemoan the frustrations of a group of people in doing the jobs they choose to do, I apologize.
            This is about product support, and the ethical dilemma of what to do when you can’t deliver on an agreement. So if you want me to climb up on a mountain and scream to the heavens the bull**** that Apple has required developers to deal with regarding core data, by all means I will do so, but can we then get back to the point that I was constructing with the assistance of the other 17 sentences that don’t mention core data at all?

            Perhaps an analogy will more aptly highlight my point: Imagine you have ordered a cake from the local bakery. The baker does everything he can to bake your cake, and given his capabilities does a good job, but the cakes simply will not rise today, no matter how many times he tries all his cakes refuse to rise. The flour mill that supplies all the flour in the land has been producing bad flour and now, at least for the foreseeable future, there is no way to get flour that will produce dough that will rise properly. So the baker discovers this and reports it to the bakery owner/management. The management asks him to use a different type of baking to cause his cakes to rise, but the baker refuses complaining that all the cake will be then is “plain cake:” the quality not up to his standards. All the while you are out expecting your cake to be ready. So a couple days pass, it’s time, and you come back to pick up the cake. When you get there the owner/management apologizes and offers you some cherry pie, and while cherry pie can be a stand-in for cake in many situations, it is not for your needs as not everyone who was going to eat some cake is nearby and the pie will go bad in the mail.
            What happens from here on out, what the owner/management does is what my post is about. Does the owner/management work with you, discovering you have flour you believe to be good in your pantry, to bake you a cake not fully guaranteed for flavor and freshness , but at least supported as a cake from that bakery? Does the owner/management offer to find an alternative solution that will work for your situation? Does the owner/management offer you and others in your situation a refund? Or do they simply offer you a cherry pie, take it or leave it, regardless of what you think – and keep your money.
            This isn’t at all an indictment on the bakers. This isn’t about core data, or developers, or even money. It’s about whether or not I can trust the owner/management to “make it their fault,” even when it’s not, because it still is. Even when Apple may validly have put the company in between a rock and a hard place, do you find a way to make it work in the ways you advertised? If not then I didn’t get the product I wanted, and I am upset. If you don’t do anything to fix that or make that right then I am going to go elsewhere to find a program that fits my needs. Regardless of weather or not I even know what the term “core data” means.

      jane:

      January 31, 2013 at 4:07 am

      Daniel, I have to wonder if you’re saying all you’re saying about the tech from a developer or consumer perspective. From what I can tell, users are happy with and even sometimes really excited about iCloud and iCloud support in all apps, while I only see the trail of tears left by developers that try anything but document-based iCloud sync.

      As a developer that has tried to ramrod iCloud sync support into existing and new Core Data-using apps all I can say is that if you really think Apple has documented much if at all and improved it in the past several months, you don’t know the half of it. I haven’t even found Apple’s own sample code and videos to be entirely accurate or working well enough for production. What the hell does that say? Volumes to me. When it works, it mostly works. The edge cases and testing make you want to go on a rampage.

      I’m not commenting about Jumsoft’s business practices – that’s their business and you can rightfully be angry about how they’re handling this as a customer of theirs. But this problem is real, many developers have it, and trying to brush it under the table because you see it working here and there and not even probably in the same circumstances is not productive.

      > Bottom line: core data in iCloud is difficult to work with, but it can be done (and has been done many times, by many parties).

      I may be a nobody, but some of the most respected developers and companies I can think of have attempted it and cursed it to high heaven and back. There’s no way the talented people at the likes of Black Pixel and Bare Bones Software are just lazy idiots like you seem to want to imply.

        Daniel:

        January 31, 2013 at 8:01 am

        You’re splitting hairs about something I barely touched on and then ignoring the whole not delivering on features they advertised part. I don’t really care how they do it, I don’t really care if they use iCloud, I just want the feature; the end user experience, to be the same as they advertised. iCloud has been full of frustrating issues since its release and Apple developers are a very under-appreciated bunch, and I go up to bat for them all the time, however [bringing it back to the main point,] once you offer a feature, come hell or high water you deliver on that feature or make it right, you don’t point fingers, and you definitely don’t give up.

        That aside, you’re correct, no one has been able to make an application that works 100% seamlessly using core data on iCloud. I never claimed otherwise (iCloud is “difficult to work with,” and “still isn’t without it’s issues,” incase you missed those sentences or the tone of the entire reply). However, many end-user parties, including myself, have been able to get multiple programs (including Money previous the removal of iCloud features) working flawlessly. In case I was not clear though: any app that uses iCloud with core data is subject to have issues with a certain portion of its users’ data. Issues that can be quite a headache to resolve if you are not a power user. Furthermore, there is some validity to suggest that Apple has put Jumsoft and others in between a rock and a hard place in regards to the way iCloud handles core data: however that is not an excuse for Jumsoft to shirk the responsibility of navigating us to a place where advertised functionality is restored.

        To answer your first question I’m speaking as a consumer: I don’t develop Apple applications as I have no interest in doing so, however that doesn’t mean that I’m ignorant to the issues surrounding iCloud. Core data in particular still has its issues, but there are still many apps working with those issues and finding other ways around them, then simply removing support for iCloud. If it isn’t worth the effort to stick around through the issues while supporting the iCloud integration then Jumsoft should have never decided to offer iCloud functionality and should at least offer refunds to those whom can no longer use the app as intended. The Wi-Fi sync does not replace the same functionality as advertised with iCloud and is an apples to oranges solution.

        Or perhaps they could look into the numerous other iCloud solutions that are available that simply avoid the use of core data. There are apps in the Top Ten(paid) in the Finance section that found ways to incorporate iCloud avoiding core data issues (and core data all together I assume) and without becoming over-glorified spreadsheets. Furthermore another uses it’s own cloud management system so the end-user experience is the same. Something to note among these apps: there are numerous reviewers who identify themselves as former Money users until Money cut cloud support.
        I don’t want to be so uncouth as to list these apps here, but if your being honest with yourself a quick check of the popular apps under the Finance section reveals two apps that work with iCloud seamlessly, several that are working through issues with affected customers while still supporting iCloud, and one that provides its own custom cloud solution that mimics the functionality of iCloud from the end-user’s point of view (still others offer Wi-Fi sync that is much more similar to the functionality of iCloud).

        Your right that I don’t develop apps for Apple, but I used to develop programs in other sectors and if there is one thing I learned it’s that, for the most part, you have the developers that give up, and the developers that are successful. At the end of the day if a core data solution isn’t acceptable for your company for whatever reason the bottom line still remains: make it right or offer a refund, don’t make excuses and don’t just give up. That’s equatable to giving up on your customers.

        On a more personal note, Incompetence is defined as “not having the necessary skills to do something successfully.” It is not a synonym for lazy or idiot. I really don’t like insults or putting others down and I’d really appreciate it if you wouldn’t put words in my mouth: that’s distasteful anyways. If they advertised a program to do one thing and it does not preform they are either unwilling or incompetent. Those are the only possibilities: I do not mean that with any negative connotation, but I’m not going to apologize for using a word correctly. If they truly attempted to add this functionality and failed then they were incompetent.

        At this point none of this really matters though, I’ve made my point. whatever little effect, if any, it will have; it has already had. Now I’ll continue using this version of Money un-updated until they either once again offer iCloud functionality or I move on to another program.


Jason:

January 16, 2013 at 8:34 pm

It’s good to have some news – even if it wasn’t the news I was hoping for.
I look forward to being able to use Money on all my devices again (I was/still am battling with the never-ending document loading situation on my iPhone). And wifi sync, while not ideal, is better than nothing.
Is there anything we need to do to prepare for the new non-icloud versions?

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 18, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Backup copy of your existing data-file if anything goes wrong in migration process.


paul:

January 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm

THANK YOU!!!

I was one of those who had disastrous results – data loss, inability to sync / open iCloud files, etc… As much as I was looking forward to always-on syncing, I’m now looking forward to actually being able to use Money again on all my devices.

I appreciate this post. I know these types of things are always hard to write. However, I do wish the communication had come a little sooner / more often. It’s felt a little like you were intentionally keeping us all in the dark about the known issues. I almost lost all faith and jumped ship to another app.

You’ve probably already looked at this, but just in case… you should look at Simperium. It seems to be specifically built to sync core data.

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Thanks for the link!

    Alexandre Costa:

    January 18, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Yeah, simperium seems to be the way to go. Many developers are leaving iCloud because of its issues. I tried some other apps to replace my unusable Money suite (I have all three Apps) but Beauty is still an issue to me (maybe a diehard mac user treat). So here I am on the line, waiting for my WiFi Sync back :)


Ken MacRaild:

January 17, 2013 at 12:15 am

As per the other comments, thanks for this communication and resolution. Looking forward to reading more as you design a way forward regarding an eventual cloud sync solution. I think I also now understand why another product (cultured code’s “Things”) chose to implement their own cloud system rather than using iCloud.

I wish you all the best as you continue to strive towards further improvements on the Money apps. They’re (minus this sync issue) really great apps.

Thanks guys!


ArikD:

January 17, 2013 at 2:17 am

If there is no iCloud-sync I will’ve to use another software. I like money, but I don’t want to do without iCloud-sync…

    vasek:

    January 19, 2013 at 1:03 am

    I appreciated your “downgrade”, because my data for more then two years does not sync. (file size is only les than 7MB).
    Who do like iCloud sync and it works for them … simply do not upgrade :)


Andrew Gibson:

January 17, 2013 at 3:04 am

Thats a shame but to be honest I hate when I open money and it asks me if I want to use icloud I just want the application to open.

Money is my favourite finance app and I have quite a few! Ive tried cha ching, anyone remember them?
Moneywell, Quicken, Moneybag even microsoft money when it was on the go, but none of them come close to the clear layout and ease of importing data from banks that can be achieved with Money. I also love the fact that it displays clearly on my retina Macbook pro.

Would dropbox work any easier?
Keep up the hard work guys!


Jonathan:

January 17, 2013 at 8:22 am

Thank you! I would still love to see iCloud syncing that works, but not until its ready please.


CLEAVEN:

January 17, 2013 at 8:28 pm

Ok so have you considered account based syncing like myfitnesspal or todo pro where the user syncs within there own account and not the cloud. Is this a possible option

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    I’m afraid, with current data-file structure, it’s not possible, but thanks for the suggestion!


Funkpolvo:

January 17, 2013 at 9:30 pm

I just bought this today!!! FML!!!

I’ve been using iPhone and iPad versions and I’m loving the icloud sync.

I love money apps but seriously, the mac version, at least for me is useless without iCloud sync. I can keep using iOS versions.

I like money products but I think you have to be less aggressive with the way you market them. I have paid 3 products not just one.

And now iCloud is off…

    Paul:

    January 29, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    I had a few teething problems, with iCloud sync, but I got it sorted. Is there a chance in the future releases that maybe we can have more than one sync option? Wifi and iCloud……


Adrian:

January 17, 2013 at 11:14 pm

The statement from Jumsoft is a very brave admission and I wonder how many other companies would admit to a mistake. Just for doing that they have in my opinion proved they are an absolutely genuine company and want to do their best to produce a really good product. Money is a great application and I will continue with it as this admission demonstrates in my view a strong commitment to customer satisfaction.


Paul:

January 18, 2013 at 11:22 am

Yes … we all appreciate the fact that you have admitted that there was an issue … BUT … what happens if one (like me) had a backup in iCloud and now needs to take it back … and its no longer possible!!
Can you provide a solution to a guy like me who is in a big mess?

Then … I suggest that you immediately correct your product description on the various web sites as you are still advertising the iCloud feature. I even bought the Mac version (trying to find a solution to my problem) and then found out the “change”.

Please provide a solution on how I (we) can download what is in iCloud … just one time !!

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 18, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    All your documents kept in iCloud should be available in ~/Library/Mobile Documents/ folder and you should be able to find Money files there. If you experience any issues, just contact us at support@jumsoft.com


Jürg Hölzle:

January 18, 2013 at 11:47 am

Funny, that iCloud seems working again. But I had to re-install my iOS apps, first.

I appreciate the return of the WiFi sync, but iCloud should kept as an option. What do you think about syncing with DropBox?

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 18, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    We are considering possibility to add Dropbox sync, however, we do not want to make the same mistakes, so we need to make sure that it will work perfectly.

    mikes:

    January 18, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    The same with me, my iOS apps *suddenly* started to work, while I did nothing after taking on _all_ the workarounds read in previous posts (db export, several un/reinstallations, etc.)
    Thanks, now I know (as all my 3 apps work perfectly) I must NOT upgrade to the next version.
    Wi-FI sync (while it’s reliable) is out of date, c’ mon guys, it’s the era of cloud computing, I don’t want to bother syncing my data manually, or waiting getting home, as at my working place (for security reasons) I’m on a different network with my phone and Mac..

    Peter E:

    January 19, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Same here, the app on my mac suddenly started to work again, getting all my info from my ios app. But it doesn’t seem to be working the other way around, yet.

    Hopefully you’ll be able to get it to work with some other sync service. I know that the Omnigroup have their own sync service connected to their OmniFocus, and it has been working very good as far as I can tell for the last years.


Lawrence Bryant:

January 18, 2013 at 7:07 pm

Maybe an option would be for you to provide the syncing servers. I use an app that stores recipes and syncs across my macs iPhone and iPad. I am sure this is based on a database not a document structure. It might be worth speaking to http://www.paprikaapp.com/ people and see how they sync.

Cloud sync is a must for me, I never got on with wi-fi sync as I am not disciplined enough and subsequently gave up on ios and just used the mac version. If this is not sorted soon (by the summer) I’ll be going else where.

Maybe if other people use apps that are based on a database and sync successfully they. Let jumsoft know maybe they can find an alternative solution.

Regards, Lawrence


Deszcz z iCloud - Mój Mac:

January 19, 2013 at 12:23 am

[...] jak należy. Notoryczne raporty o kłopotach, zła opinia, ogólny chaos sprawiły, że się poddali. Programiści z Jumsoft usuną w kolejnej wersji programu wsparcie dla synchronizacji poprzez [...]


R Rollins:

January 19, 2013 at 3:18 am

Thank you so much for the update! I was very happy when I found JumSoft Money because I needed a suitable replacement for Microsoft Money after I switched from Windows to Mac. The iCloud sync feature was great at first, but then stopped working between my three i-devices (iMac, iPad, iPhone). I’ll take the WiFi sync as an interim solution until such time that iCloud sync can be re-introduced. I just didn’t want to see the app investment for three devices go down the drain.

Thanks again for the update and for giving is a reasonable solution!


no1453:

January 19, 2013 at 5:58 am

I just bought the iPad and iPhone apps, and downloaded the trial of “Money for Mac”. After a few hours of pulling my hair out over sync I headed to your support page and luckily spotted the link to the newest blog post that explained everything. (You might want to make that a little more prominent somewhere on your site, once I found it I was much happier (not disappointed.) ).
I’m unfamiliar with how the App store review process works; could you give me some sort of general ballpark figure of when you think the apps will be approved and available? Any guess would be welcome.


bye jumsoft:

January 19, 2013 at 9:09 pm

too late.
After having problems after almost every update to sync and the disappointment that you canceled “bill engine”, what was a principal point to keep up with money after version 3, I switched.


Yves:

January 19, 2013 at 11:54 pm

Oh I hope I’ll be able to acces my accounts again.
Any idea how long it approximately takes for it go through the review process?

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 21, 2013 at 11:02 am

    It might take up to couple weeks until it will get approved.

      Marcal:

      January 21, 2013 at 8:00 pm

      Really? It´s a lot of time….


Paul:

January 20, 2013 at 2:38 am

Great News! Was waiting for Wifi Sync to come back. Hopefully my old Money Data on iPhone will show up again now.


Simon:

January 20, 2013 at 12:28 pm

Very helpful background. I am looking for a money package to replace MS Money and had settled on Money, but was put off by all the negative noise around iCloud.

iCloud is a great thing, but it is not everything. Other apps I use have either had problems with it (eg TapNotes) or have avoided using it (2do, Trunknotes).

So I will wait for your update to be approved by Apple and then buy……


Tomas:

January 20, 2013 at 4:06 pm

Hi,

I don’t really know why but all of sudden everything seems to be working (not really without problems – I sometimes have to restart iPhone and iPad apps, but it syncs). I did not do anything with the files, I did not reinstall anything. Is it possible that iCloud “repaired” something?

    Marcal:

    January 21, 2013 at 12:57 am

    Thank you for the tip, Tomas. I’ve tried the apps here and it seems they are working fine. At least, it was possible to open an iCloud file again, what was not happening since december.


Libor:

January 21, 2013 at 10:48 am

Same for me, iCloud suddenly start to run properly. Didn’t even have to reinstall apps. It’s very strange, but it’s working..


Matthew Wong:

January 21, 2013 at 12:53 pm

Glad to hear wifi-sync will be back^^


urimacias:

January 22, 2013 at 7:44 am

Hey!, someting is fishy here. icloud sync works. lets blame apple for reability, since the software have not been updated.


AR:

January 22, 2013 at 10:39 am

sigh, if only I’d read this before.


Andrea:

January 22, 2013 at 11:53 am

It was a worldwide random iCloud issue. All my iCloud apps have been affected, even Numbers and Pages. Some other customers did not have problems at the same time.
Now, suddendly, everything runs.

    yksk:

    January 22, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Me too. iCloud sync is working. wow!

    Rick:

    January 23, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    Wait! What!

    You’re saying that iCloud sync is now working properly? Maybe there’s still hope? Sure wish Jumsoft was more active on this blog.

      Giedrius Jaloveckas:

      January 24, 2013 at 8:43 am

      We are still aware that not all issues (most important) with iCloud are resolved (issues related directly to Apple). We’ve already notified them, however, we do not have any timeframe when these issues will be resolved. We hope that at least iOS7 will bring some good news.


Ryan:

January 22, 2013 at 9:24 pm

iCloud sync has been working fine for me right from the beginning. No issues. Please do not pull the option. At least leave it optional for those who want to use it. It’s an absolute must have in an age where every family owns more than one device. Waited for over a year to have the feature, so please don’t pull it now.

    Igor:

    January 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Cloud syncing is a very useful feature in terms of modern life. But iCloud syncing as it was presented by Jumsoft is not so good so far. Because you can’t use it if you got a family with different apple ID’s. My wife’s got her own apple ID and Money App on her device and the only way to sync is wi-fi. If i got a possibility in Money app to choose an apple id to sync with it can be really usefull.

    Now i’m using MoneyWiz instead of Money because of all this mess with syncing. It looks a little bit poor comparing to Money, but their own cloud syncing works perfectly for me.


Rafael:

January 23, 2013 at 12:50 am

Why did you hide the wi-fi sync button? You should keep both options available in case one of them doesn’t work. Also, you should update the sync help with the iCloud method.

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 24, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Unfortunately, there is no possibility to have both sync technologies at the same time.

      Peter E:

      January 27, 2013 at 5:37 pm

      With the latest update of 1Password, there’s an option to sync both with icloud and dropbox at the same time.


Rick:

January 23, 2013 at 10:39 pm

I’m not using iCloud sync with Money. Have been entering transactions on my iPhone for a few weeks in “standalone” mode. Will I be able to simply Wi-Fi sync to the desktop version of Jumsoft Money when the updated app is approved by Apple?


Elias Orozco:

January 25, 2013 at 7:25 am

So sad icloud fail to sync Money. I do really appreciate this post, today i frustated by using Money, so i began looking for a replace, but this post just show me the professionals you are by admit this error.
Hope you get a way to sync other than iCloud, like other apps are doing.


Albert:

January 26, 2013 at 12:58 am

I had been using Money Dance financial application for years. Then they switch to Dropbox and now nothing syncs. There support team has tried and suggested many things but nothing worked. I would not suggested getting involved with drop box syncing.

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 30, 2013 at 9:59 am

    We are aware, that Dropbox might have similar options as iCloud, but we do not plan to add support until all the issues will be resolved.


Matt:

January 26, 2013 at 8:49 am

Perhaps you should stop advertising iCloud Syncing as a feature for this app. I mean, it’s right there on the main page, and it’s the main reason I purchased the app for all of my devices yesterday. I wouldn’t have dropped the money if I’d known iCloud Syncing (or any syncing for that matter) wasn’t an option. Instead, I was led to believe that it was.


Marcal:

January 26, 2013 at 2:27 pm

I cannot believe that Apple takes so much time to review a mere update….


Alexey:

January 26, 2013 at 5:31 pm

Dear Jumsoft developers, I was one of those who argued against w-fi, but I started to use icloud (I was forced to, because you leave me no other choice ) and now I’m in an awkward and in a bit strange position to be honest. You made an icloud sync but disable the wi-fi, instead of keeping them both and let your users decide which way of sync works better for Money-users. Now you are downgrading back to w-fi sync disabling icloud, which is also not very nice, because some of us (including me) get used to icloud and manage this sync perfectly without any data loss etc.. Why don’t just make to ways of sync and give the people choice? Is that so difficult and mision is absolutely impossible? Wi-fi or icloud, why don’t make your own data center for sync all of the data, like moneywiz, things and other applications do? I feel myself like a Guinee Pig, on which tests been taken, I’ll keep using Money anyway, but I will strongly consider to find a substitute very soon.

    Marcal:

    January 26, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    This situation makes me feel like a popular tale in country. There was a very poor family, living in terrible conditions. One day, a skunk entered their house and life became even more miserable. The stink was terrible and they couldn’t stand living in those conditions. But someone managed to get rid of the skunk, and suddenly everybody felt very happy, thinking how life was very good without that bad smell.

    What Jumsoft is doing is exactly this. They are just getting rid of the skunk. Cloud syncing was an essential feature for Money. Everybody asked for this. But the implementation was very poor. Now, we are taking a step back to Wi-Fi sync, but somehow it feels our experience will be much better, just because iCloud didn’t work.

    We really want a sync system that works smoothly, like a lot of other apps (including some financial as well).

      Rick:

      January 28, 2013 at 9:20 pm

      Living in those conditions after the skunk is gone would be an upgrade for me. My house had dirt floors and a broken toilet. Moving up to a house with wood floors and working plumbing is OK. Sure, we may not be rich or even middle class but it’s better than it was.

      In other words – I’ve been tied to a Windows desktop computer (actually virtual machine now on a Mac) using Quicken. Have to sit down there and type in all my transactions after tons of receipts pile up on my desk.

      The Foursquare implementation is brilliant. Just found Money recently so I’ve never had any sync via WiFi or otherwise. But I’m really excited to try the WiFi sync. Entering transactions as they happen on my iPhone is awesome! Can’t wait to WiFi sync.

      Then I’ll have moved up from the 1980s model of personal finance.


Jim:

January 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm

What a fucking mess…


paul:

January 29, 2013 at 8:13 pm

How long it will take for the update to be available?


Poodle:

January 30, 2013 at 4:42 am

Any updates on when the new versions are available?

    Giedrius Jaloveckas:

    January 30, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Update is already approved and we plan to release it in few upcoming hours.


L:

January 30, 2013 at 11:43 am

This is ridiculous and stupid. Other programs have been able to get icloud sync working such a 1password. Why did I even bother to buy this rubbish. 1 year of waiting for this.


Dries:

January 30, 2013 at 12:12 pm

I can understand that you’re trying to give the best experience to your users but I think this is a really bad decision to some of your user base. I bought the money iPhone and Mac app about a month ago. iCloud support was one of the main (if not thé reason) to buy. I’ve been using it now for a month and am enjoying the app greatly, one of those joys being that everything syncs nicely over iCloud. I haven’t had any problems with it whatsoever. Now that you’re downgrading your app you’ve taken away one of the main reasons why I bought the apps. I’m greatly disappointed by this decision. Why don’t you just give users the option to sync over WiFi or iCloud (or dropbox for that matter)?

To put it simple: I haven’t had any problems with iCloud and I really can’t understand this drastic decision. I don’t think I would have bought the apps if they didn’t have had iCloud support.

I’m very disappointed by this decision.

    Ramunas:

    January 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Hello there,
    we are sorry to disappoint you, but leaving both options available would cause even more technical problems for users who experience problems.
    We hope to bring back some way of Cloud sync as soon as it gets reliable. We are working on some interesting stuff.
    If it works fine for you, you can just ignore the latest update, and keep using the current version that you have.

      magnaval:

      January 30, 2013 at 4:12 pm

      Okay but how can i get 2.5 version if i have updated 2.5.1 version???

        Daniel:

        January 31, 2013 at 1:02 am

        Hi,

        I’m in the exact same situation, I bought Money for Mac specifically for the iCloud feature, which is now removed! How can I downgrade to 2.5 again so that I can use this again?

        Best,
        Daniel


Rick:

January 30, 2013 at 1:05 pm

Update is in the App Store today!

Just downloaded!

    Alberto:

    January 30, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    DO NOT UPDATE!!!!!!! This is just plain stupid!?!?!?!? I don’t have the Mac version of this App, only iPhone and iPad. How the hell am I supposed to keep both up to date now? I have to enter everything twice? Going back to wi-fi is the most stupid thing you could have done. In 2013 people do everything on the go with mobile using cloud features and what you do? You go back to stone age with wi-fi. What to expect in the next update? Save to floppy disk each transaction??? COME ON!! WAKE UP!!!!


xergic:

January 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm

I used Money for iPhone (with WiFi sync) and then I moved everything to Money for iPad and migrated to iCloud. I was quite satisfied with it, although I didn’t use syncing at all. But now? I just installed the newest update and I have nothing. I can’t access my old data. And there was no warning at all in the update message! (Just “we’re going back to wifi sync” or something like this.)
So I immediately backed up a file from ~/Library/Mobile Data/ (as suggested above) hoping that I can open it on my desktop with downloaded trial version and see if it’s correct. No way, can’t open it.
I also had older version on my iPhone and I thought I can check it there. Bummer. There was about half year old version (the time I last opened it on iPhone). And no way to sync…
And another strange thing – the file size of backed up file (and also in iCloud) is just 0,3 kB. I think that can’t be right…

Is there/will there be a way to recover my data? Or did I just lose three years of accounting? :-(

    Nikita:

    January 30, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Same thing here….

    Ramunas:

    January 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Hello there,
    could you please try re-starting the app fully(by killing it) and see if your files are still not visible?
    If not, please send us an email to support@jumsoft.com

      xergic:

      January 30, 2013 at 9:23 pm

      I sent an e-mail to you but it was probably not necessary. The new article clarifies it all.

      Before the article was posted, I restored the old version (with guide from magnaval in the, currently, last comment). My file was there and complete. I can’t describe my relief.

      I’m sorry if was mean to you. And I hope it will be resolved soon! :-)


Marcal:

January 30, 2013 at 1:15 pm

I’ve just updated the apps. The first bad news (at least for me): now the transactions show the icon of the category, and not of the payee. I had all my payees organised with icons, so it was very easy to find a transaction.


Fabrizio:

January 30, 2013 at 1:52 pm

So iCloud was working fine for me and now after updating the app on several devices I’ve lost all my money documents. Not a big deal anyway because knowing how Jumsoft have manage updates in the past, I’ve saved a local copy of the files before upgrading.

Now that iCloud sync is gone, there’s the WiFi option that is really useless for people on the go. Moreover the WiFi sync doesn’t work at all. First on the iPad (that is now completely empty) there’s no option to sync unless you create a new document, and naturally you can’t initiate the sync from the Mac version, it can only be started from the iPad. So with patience, I’ve created an empty document on the iPad to start the synchronization and finally my iPad appeared on the left panel of Money. I entered the 4 digits PIN and then nothing. It not supposed to appear a button to start the sync? You need to change also the labels on the Mac version because the PIN code is provided by the iPad not by the Mac.

Anyway, for the future be sure to act as a professional development company, test before you deploy, don’t mess with the updates and don’t remove features people are relaying on. You need to realize that customers can use your apps for their daily work and any broken updates like this one will affect their daily workflow.

    Ramunas:

    January 30, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Hello there,
    as for issue with nothing happening when you enter the PIN code, please make sure that you are on a stable Wifi connection, ad-hoc wifi networks tend to work better in some cases. If that does not work, please send us an email at: support@jumsoft.com

    As for quality, we are really trying hard to improve the quality of our productt. We have certainly learned a lot from this release, something like this will not happen again.


Nikita:

January 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm

So WTF?

I updated the program and now there is nothing. All information is gone.

In \Library folder there is only DocumentMetadata.plist file and in data folder there is a bunch of .cdt files.

Does it mean all my information is gone?


magnaval:

January 30, 2013 at 2:49 pm

Hi, PLEASE, may you update to icloud sync version cause for user who icloud bug, thay can sync by using emailing process but icloud user dont have choice!!! with your new sync wifi systeme is poor an ICLOUD SYNC WORK PERFECTLY SINCE FEW DAYS. Maybe apple fix a bug!!! so submit to apple an icloud version, a lot of your client whant to so listen them!!!!!

    Ramunas:

    January 30, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    We have submitted bugs to Apple. Hopefully, they will get fixed eventually.

      magnaval:

      January 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm

      But can sent me by email 1.2.0 version .ipa to let me install by itune.
      Icloiud work for me!!!
      If you want, i can be a beta tester for you

      magnaval:

      January 30, 2013 at 4:08 pm

      Soory it is the 2.5 version, please email me the .ipa


Bartonm:

January 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm

At least I can use money app on my iPad (1st generation). But I’ll miss the iCloud feature even it doesn’t work right most of the time.


Ramunas:

January 30, 2013 at 3:03 pm

For those who do not see your iCloud files after the update: please make sure you have an internet connection and try to re-launch Money. It will try to download your iCloud documents on the first launch.
If it does not succeed, it will try that on the next re-launch(this will happen as long as you have documents available in the iCloud).
You can re-launch the app by double clicking the center button on your iOS device, tapping and holding your finger over the Money icon until the minus sign appears and the clicking on it. After that, try launching Money again.

If you are having problems, please send us an email to support@jumsoft.com

    Nikita:

    January 30, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Re-launched the app multiple times and even restarted the phone. Nothing happens.

      magnaval:

      January 30, 2013 at 4:07 pm

      Same for me

        Ramunas:

        January 30, 2013 at 4:18 pm

        Please check your other devices, as only the first device to upgrade gets to download the data file.

          magnaval:

          January 30, 2013 at 4:48 pm

          Doesnt work but no matter, i had make some email export before update so!!!
          But i hope you will be able to fix soon the icloud bug to re-install it in the next update.


BRENT:

January 30, 2013 at 3:57 pm

Thanks for going back to Wifi sync. I eventually got the hang of iCloud but there were delays with the data appearing my devices. It would eventually sync but i never felt comfortable with the process.

I would also copy a manual back up into a folder from the GO menu in finder. All seemed a bit clumsy.

Nice to see you not afraid to go back to what works. Love the back up to folder functionality!

BTW what has happened to Portfolio. It disappeared in the last upgrade.

    Ramunas:

    January 30, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Please check if “Money > Preferences > General > Show: Portfolio” is enabled?


Ruste (Jumsoft):

January 30, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Guys, if you’re having any problems with retrieving your Money document from iCloud or it isn’t quite clear how it works, we have a new blog post here: http://www.jumsoft.com/2013/01/where-is-my-data-file/


magnaval:

January 30, 2013 at 5:20 pm

RESTORE ICLOUD VERSION WITH ITUNE

Ok i got a method to re-install on iphone or ipad the 1.2.0 version for ipad and 2.5.0 version for iphone for user want to continue to use ICLOUD sync.
So fisrt DONT synchronise ipad or iphone with icloud, open icloud and in apps section finf money version icon apps than clic right and choose see in explorator of windows thna you will get access to .ipa apps.
Copy it in a folder on your desktop ( make the same method for all version ipad or iphone you want to keep.
Whan is done double clic on .ipa, it will install it on itune and accepte or not to remplace itune data.
After, delete apps on iphone or ipad.
Connect iphone or ipad to itune with your CABLE.
Select the apps money to install it during the synchronusation and at the and of synchronisation you will get the icloud version of money apps on your idevice.
Dont update the apps to appsstore!!!!!!


Michael Tsai - Blog - Money Apps Removing Core Data iCloud Sync:

January 31, 2013 at 12:16 am

[...] Giedrius Jaloveckas: After a rather frantic month of dealing with the unfortunate iCloud sync, we made an always-difficult decision: to do a U-turn. New versions of all three Money apps are currently waiting for Apple’s review, and they all contain the old sync via Wi-Fi. Some of you will be glad to go back to the old sync, and some will be inevitably disappointed, but we must admit that iCloud sync is just not reliable on Money. Let us explain you how we ended up with this undesirable result. [...]


sergio accornero:

January 31, 2013 at 1:46 am

Hello

I have not lost any data but I am glad about the sync option.

I am waiting for the new version but:
- the latest version in the app Store is 4.4.2 and my installed one is 4.3.1 (j40249). Checked for a new version from the menu with no result. I have purchased not via AppStore but directly from you.

- the latest iPhone version is available only in the US iTunes Store.

Can you check?

thanks

    Ramunas:

    January 31, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Please check again in a couple of hours, it takes a while for the App store to show the new versions.

      sergio accornero:

      January 31, 2013 at 6:37 pm

      ok, now iTunes list the new version (2.5.2).
      what about the mac one?

      thanks


Larry:

January 31, 2013 at 12:17 pm

I tried to add iCloud syncing to a Core Data-based application I’m working on. It was a nightmare! It’s nice to know it’s not just me. I filed a bug report. They want a demo app. Surely, mine is not the first report on this bug!


Alex:

January 31, 2013 at 9:48 pm

Since the product delivered by jumsoft is now missing one of its most advertised features at the point of sale I will be asking Apple for a refund for the Mac, iPad and iPhone versions of Money (a visa chargeback if necessary). Forcing users to stay on outdated versions of software in order to keep it fully functional is poor business practice. It’s a shame really, Money a has better interface than most accounting apps out there.


magnaval:

February 03, 2013 at 12:23 am

Hi, so jumsoft, take a look on the apps CYCLOMETER. This dev create is own icloud sync system based on a semi automatic data base who the user select the data base of the idevice he want to install on the other.
so it could be a good temporary solution to icloud???
Thanks to your work, i think you are in a difficult position but icloud is essential to your apps, good luck to fix the icloud bug.


Floating Point Episode 13: Old-Fashioned That Way:

February 07, 2013 at 4:25 am

[...] Jumsoft: Response to Sync Issues [...]


Alberto:

February 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm

If someone like me is happy about the iCloud version but by mistake has updated the app to its new version that eliminates the iCloud feature (2.5.2), it can be downgraded again to the 2.5 version by getting the .ipa file in the trash bin of your Mac and reinstall it over in iTunes. This happens when you updated the apps in iTunes, it installs the new version and put the old one in the trash bin. If the trash bin has been emptied out, then there is no way to downgrade. Hope that helps someone in this confusing time of Jumsoft Money app.